Topic: SV Pro/Flash10-doesn't manage ICC profiles correctly in fullscreen

Hi guys,

I discovered that something is not working fine with ICC engine of SV Pro 2.1.2.

Please look at this example:
http://jakubnawrot.com/tests/test_flash_icc/index.html

If you don't have wide gamut monitor - you will not see what I mean ;(

When you watch just loaded page or when you open image with "Open image in New window" everything is OK - proper colors (I use FF 3.6.13 with mode "1"). If you try to click "Go to fullscreen" - you will see oversaturated image - ICC managing is not working at all in Fullscreen (I mean SV Pro fullscreen, not web browser F11).

Whole my example is based on one tagged photo (sRGB).

So the problem is that SV Pro 2.1.2 / Flash 10 is managing image profiles correctly (even if the web browser doesn't have CMS), but only out of Fullscreen view.

Do you know how to manage this problem?

Last edited by torwan (2011-03-02 10:43:31)

Re: SV Pro/Flash10-doesn't manage ICC profiles correctly in fullscreen

Hi,

I just tested your URL on OS X 10.6, Chrome 10 and did screen grabs on the regular SWf, fullscreen SWF and the image itself. All the colors looked identical.

The problem with ICC support in Flash is that it is not 100% guaranteed across all browsers, flash player versions and OSes. So we recommend that you save your images without a color profile to ensure they look the same everywhere. http://www.simpleviewer.net/simpleviewe … ort/#color

Felix Turner
SimpleViewer Support Team.

Re: SV Pro/Flash10-doesn't manage ICC profiles correctly in fullscreen

Felix wrote:

Hi,

I just tested your URL on OS X 10.6, Chrome 10 and did screen grabs on the regular SWf, fullscreen SWF and the image itself. All the colors looked identical.

The problem with ICC support in Flash is that it is not 100% guaranteed across all browsers, flash player versions and OSes. So we recommend that you save your images without a color profile to ensure they look the same everywhere. http://www.simpleviewer.net/simpleviewe … ort/#color


The question is - do you have wide-gamut monitor to test it? If not - I agree you see identical colors. Tagged and untagged images will look identical in this case - both will be mapped to poor ~sRGB monitor gamut. You are not able to test it without over_sRGB_monitor.

Suggestion to remove color profiles from images is highly unprofessional. Every photo must be tagged. Especially nowadays - in the time when wide-gamut monitors are in good price and many people can buy them.


I have added second, untagged "image" for testing (green one).

Last edited by torwan (2011-03-25 12:49:42)

Re: SV Pro/Flash10-doesn't manage ICC profiles correctly in fullscreen

The question is - do you have wide-gamut monitor to test it?

Im using a Mac LED Cinema Display about 3 months old so I assume it supports color profiles.

Suggestion to remove color profiles from images is highly unprofessional.

I'm not sure about this one. The fact is that many systems do not support color profiles. For example most versions IE and Chrome do not support color profiles (CP). Also many monitors do not support CP. So if you save your images using CP you are taking a risk that many people will not be viewing your image as you intend it to look. If you remove the CP then everyone will view the image as you save it.

Felix Turner
SimpleViewer Support Team.

Re: SV Pro/Flash10-doesn't manage ICC profiles correctly in fullscreen

Felix wrote:

The question is - do you have wide-gamut monitor to test it?

Im using a Mac LED Cinema Display about 3 months old so I assume it supports color profiles.

Monitors DO NOT support any color profiles. CMS (Color Management System) embedded in application can support color profiles - not monitor. This is device like printer - just reproducting colors, converting numbers (RGB) to light.

We still do not know if your monitor is able to show more than sRGB gamut.
I do not know which size of screen you have (kind of IPS matrix and its abilities), but I have found some kind of review here:

http://blog.david-kennedy.com/2009/10/1 … p2475w-24/

...and I see that this monitor is able to show only ~sRGB area. Definitely < AdobeRGB.

Felix wrote:

Suggestion to remove color profiles from images is highly unprofessional.

I'm not sure about this one. The fact is that many systems do not support color profiles. For example most versions IE and Chrome do not support color profiles (CP). Also many monitors do not support CP. So if you save your images using CP you are taking a risk that many people will not be viewing your image as you intend it to look. If you remove the CP then everyone will view the image as you save it.

More and more systems (OSs, web browsers, picture viewers) are now able to manage color. Even Flash has color management implemented wink New IE9 has CMS implemented (ICC v4 compliance).

"If you remove the CP then everyone will view the image as you save it" ----- NO. Then users are in worse situation. If they - for example - are using Firefox with color management mode set to default "2" they will see oversaturated pictures - of course if they use wide-gamut monitors.

Generaly to make some kind of sub-summary:

Web browsers with color management:
FF > v3.6.x (ICC v2 compliance)
Safari 5
IE9 (ICC v4 comliance)

Web browsers without color management:
Opera 11.01
Chrome 9

...you can check it  here:
http://color.org/version4html.xalter
and here:
http://color.org/browsertest.xalter

Additionaly:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Photoshop/1 … 0246E.html

"By assigning, or tagging, a document with a profile, the application provides a DEFINITION of actual color appearances in the document. For example, R=127, G=12, B=107 is JUST A SET OF NUMBERS that different devices will display differently."

In my opinion you are not right. I still claim that suggestion to remove color profiles is highly unprofessional. In the past, many monitors/color reproducting devices had gamuts ~ or < than sRGB - we didn't need to care about profiles in internet. Additionaly internet connetions speed was much slower - that is why images without profiles were expected to be lighter. Nowodays we don't need to care about weight of CP file - is much lighter than image wink

...but this is not a main point of the discussion. I discovered that Flash object and its ICC engine do not colaborate with CMS of web browser. It behave as completely independent object - no matter if it is embedded in web browser with or without color management. It has its own CM engine. Now the question is if this engine works incorrectly in Flash full screen mode because of failure of Adobe code or yours wink

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For more info about Firefox CMS (and other) please check this:
http://www.gballard.net/firefox/

Here you can make some more tests:
http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_pag … files.html

Last edited by torwan (2011-03-25 18:35:15)

Re: SV Pro/Flash10-doesn't manage ICC profiles correctly in fullscreen

Thanks for the info. To go back to the original issue (color profiles not working in full screen mode), I believe this is an issue with the Flash player that we cannot fix in SimpleViewer.

Unfortunately Flash ICC Color Profile support has some issues and does not work in all situations or on all systems. That is why we recommend that you avoid using color profiles if possible .

A couple of workarounds would be:

1) Disable the fullscreen button (use 'showFullscreenButton' option)
2) Uncheck 'useFlash' and go with the non-flash gallery.

Felix Turner
SimpleViewer Support Team.