Topic: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

Hi there. I just started using Simpleviewer a couple of hours ago. I'm running the server script for Unix that makes the thumbnails for you. It's all working great except for one thing: the images, when presented in Simpleviewer, are significantly lighter than they're supposed to be.

For instance, if I make a JPG of one of my photos in Photoshop, it looks a certain way, with the correct amount of contrast that I dial into the image. If I open that same JPG in either of my web browsers, it still looks exactly right. But if I put that same JPG in a Simpleviewer gallery, run the script, and then look at the gallery in either browser, the image looks washed out.

Anyone know what's going on here and how I fix it? I spend a lot of time getting everything just right with these photos and I want them to stay the same when I post them up.

Thanks!

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

I'm not aware of SimpleViewer altering image lightness. It's possible that Flash renders the JPG in a different way than HTML.

Did you compare the image in SV against the same JPG from the 'images' folder? Did you try screen grabbing and comparing color values in Photoshop? Do you have an example URL?

Felix Turner
SimpleViewer Support Team.

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

Thanks very much for your replies...good ideas. I'm pretty amateurish at this stuff.

The image opens as lighter in SV and normal if I just link directly to the exact same image. See the first image at:

http://www.kristuphir.net/photos/121706

versus the image directly at:

http://www.kristuphir.net/photos/121706 … G_4910.jpg

I tried the screen grab too - the values do come up way differently.

I'm using the latest SV version, if that helps any.

I don't actually have a program that creates or edits Flash on my computer...I wonder if I did, if I'd be able to change a setting somewhere?

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

Interesting... On my setup (Windows XP/Firefox/Flash Player 9), the SV and JPG versions have identical color values. What is your setup there?

Felix Turner
SimpleViewer Support Team.

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

BTW - Great photos!

Felix Turner
SimpleViewer Support Team.

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

Thanks! I'm going to be posting more up there in the very near future...

My setup here is Mac OS 10.3.9, and Safari, which I think just has a Flash Player in it. But Safari's a year or two old...I wonder if I upgraded flash players if I'll see a difference. Very interesting, this. The images looked different on my Cinema Display-equipped G5 at work too...

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

The 'problem' is that Safari handles colors a lot better than any other browser, if you compare the photo's in Fire Fox you won't notice any difference, on Safari however the difference is huge.

[img]http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/1569/afbeelding2mw4.png[/img]

Fire Fox.

[img]http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9215/afbeelding10fv.png[/img]

Safari.

I think that the only thing you can do is hope that there will be a better Flash player that handles colors better (I guess that that the Flash Player is the problem).

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

I've since figured out that if I break down and work in the somewhat limited SRGB color profile, the images look a lot closer across the board...so that's what i'm doing for now.

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

Limited SRGB? Could you explain that, It would be really helpful for one of my own websites smile

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

I just mean that of all the RGB color profiles, I've since discovered, SRGB has the smallest color gamut but can be most accurately viewed by the most software/platforms. Safari I think is the only browser that can deal with color profiles other than sRGB (Adobe RGB being another popular one with a somewhat larger gamut and ProPhoto RGB being an even more useful gamut but not quite so popular yet). Once I had my workflow operating in SRGB, the images started looking the same everywhere. I guess a lot of photo labs want SRGB anyway, so I'm not losing out too much on the extremely minor (to the naked eye) color detail that I lose working in SRGB versus one of the others.

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

I'm using SimpleViewer for the first time and I notice some lightening of images in SV. I hadn't noticed it until I had an image with some very white areas with a small amount of detail. Those white areas get completely blown out. I also now am aware of an overall lightening.

I haven't noticed a difference between Safari and FireFox. I'm using sRGB.

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

I'm having this problem too - pictures look a bit de-saturated.  What's weird is the thumbnails look fine.

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

Yep, you have to use sRGB to flatten out the differing responses between browsers and Os.

I was using mac flavoured unix for post on my images until i discovered that
the OS was using high jpeg compression, so had to revert to web export in phtoshop.

this saved me a whopping 60% overhead in filesize ie 168k vs 60k

cheers Oyster

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

Yep, you have to use sRGB to flatten out the differing responses between browsers and Os.

I was using mac flavoured unix for post on my images until i discovered that
the OS was using high jpeg compression, so had to revert to web export in phtoshop.

this saved me a whopping 60% overhead in filesize ie 168k vs 60k

cheers Oyster

yeah I've currently got them up in sRGB, which seems to be the best (I've tried everything from Adobe RGB to Wide Gamut RGB) - but they still do seem a bit desaturated

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

You need to run some tests on the conversion to sRGB.

Choose "saturation" intent and the "apple color sync" on mac.
Saturation intent distorts the int
ended colour space to favour high saturation.

If you on a MAc, check out /utilities and colorsync you can preview the differing colour spaces in 3d.

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

I added a FAQ Question 28 on this subject: http://www.airtightinteractive.com/simp … r/faq.html

Felix Turner
SimpleViewer Support Team.

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

I agree that you should always use sRGB when preparing files for display on computers. That is what sRGB is for, it is the standard for computers and the internet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGB_color_space

I usually need to adjust contrast and color saturation for display on computers. Even if you go to a lot of trouble to get the images exactly as you want them you will find that the images will look different on nearly every single monitor they are viewed on. I have two supposedly identical ldc monitors side by side and even they look different. Graphics cards, monitors, drivers etc will all effect how the image is displayed.

So if I were you I would get the images as close as you can using sRGB but don't spend too much time on it as oyu cannot gurantee how everyone else wil lsee them.

Also I generally do not imbed the color profile when saving for web, especially Simpleviewer. Not embedding also has the advantage of smaller file sizes especially in thumbnails.

See this post http://www.airtightinteractive.com/foru … php?t=4493

Regards
Phil
http://www.phillipnorman.com

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

Today I started using FAExporter with iPhoto 08 [Mac / Leopard].

Interestingly, of the six included export plugins, two leave color and saturation unchanged (GreyBox and LightBox), whereas the other four (SimpleViewer, AutoViewer, PostcardViewer and BananAlbum) unfortunately do lighten and desaturate the images.

As a photographer, I have no clue where the reason for that might be. Could it be a difference in the Flash code processing them [?].

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

Felix do you see any chance to get that fixed in the future? color profiles are the only way on mac to display colors the right way (in safari or firefox3).

just have bought postcardviewer source script today ... but dont want to have that fade colors ... bad luck  :cry:
regards
thomas

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

This is not something that I can fix - it's an issue with the Flash player.

Felix Turner
SimpleViewer Support Team.

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

This is not something that I can fix - it's an issue with the Flash player.

well ... seems i have to live with it. just sad since other flash applications support color profiles like mentioned before in this thread. however i understand that the problem is complex in this case roll 

regards
thomas

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

sRGB is the intended color profile for use on the internet. There is no consistency across browsers and flash etc, not yet anyway. So either use sRGB or do not embed a profile at all. Also there is probably no need to embed a profile in your thumbnails as they are quite small. Genreally your images will load faster without the color profile embeded simply due to the smaller file size.

Here is a good article:
http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/color-spaces-page1/

I do not embed color profiles for my simpleviewer galleries (not intentionally at least)

(I seem to have repeated myself, sorry)

Regards
Phil
http://www.phillipnorman.com

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

sRGB is the intended color profile for use on the internet. There is no consistency across browsers and flash etc, not yet anyway. So either use sRGB or do not embed a profile at all. Also there is probably no need to embed a profile in your thumbnails as they are quite small. Genreally your images will load faster without the color profile embeded simply due to the smaller file size.

I do not embed color profiles for my simpleviewer galleries (not intentionally at least)

(I seem to have repeated myself, sorry)

that's right only if the browser handles pics without profile like sRGB. that's the way windows does it. but (dont ask me why???) mac OS X handles pics without profile like monitorRGB which is different on every mac - in the case of macbook the colors are less saturated with a cooler tint. the new firefox beta5 can handle profiles and (thats new) reads pics without profiles as if they would be sRGB's.
for some reason thats not working with simpleviewer(/postcardviewer) neither with firefox not with safari or opera.
thats one of the strange things on mac computers as there is absolutely no reason for using monitorRGB for pics without profile.

since me and many of my friends and clients use mac's i won't use postcardviewer (which i've paid 45$ for yesterday) because the colors are too important for me.

regards
thomas

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

since other flash applications support color profiles

which ones? Like I said, color profiles are not supported by Flash or any browser except Safari on the Mac. We seemed to be able to live without color profiles until safari started supporting them, not sure why they suddenly have become incredibly important.

Felix Turner
SimpleViewer Support Team.

Re: Trouble with image contrast/lightening

since other flash applications support color profiles

which ones? Like I said, color profiles are not supported by Flash or any browser except Safari on the Mac. We seemed to be able to live without color profiles until safari started supporting them, not sure why they suddenly have become incredibly important.


GreyBox and LightBox as mentioned before. but maybe they're not even flash ... sorry i'm photographer and know little about html flash etc... ???

though for sure this is a mac only problem since windows always displays photos without profile as sRGB - and that's the only thing that makes sense. and as long as mac doesn't read pics without ICC as sRGB, profile readout IS important and the only way to get accurate colors. shame on mac on this point (since it doesn't make sense in any way)

regards
thomas